What The People Want

The thing that distresses me most about the comments here are the insults baing thrown around aswell as some extremely biggoted comments. I have lived in 3 countries in Europe, 4 different states in Australia ( I am an Australian by the way) and it is horrible to hear all the nasty things people say to each other because they come from a different state. I live in qld but consider myself to be an Asutralian. Thats it. I am an Australin who lives in Qld and the comments like if you dont like it move away are embarrasing to hear. When i lived overseas i was constantly trying to make other nationalities realise that Australians aren't all biggots, and yet reading some comments here make me begin to doubt myself. I think the fact the most people have not even commented, or responded to the intelligent postings on this site says a lot. By intelligent postings i mean the ones that actually discuss the latitude and longitude and how this generally affects those who want DLS or not. As a statistician i can assure you that most of the 'Facts' people have posted (and i use the word fact very lightly) are actually opinions of their friends. Now many people think that as they have talked to others who also agree with thier opinion that they have evidence for their view. However, you need to consider this, (yes it is a generalisation, but not an inaccurate one.. i could go through study cases but would take too much time.) many friends of yours are ones who are in the same town, or workplace, and this leads to common opinions.

I would like to address the comments about the hour in the morning Vs the hour in the evening. When people have said that they would like the extra hour in the evening, and others have come back with the comment, just get up and go jogging etc in the morning, i think you have missed the point. While some people do make use of the time in the morning a significantly larger amount of people dont have time to do the things in the morning hour, that could be done by adding on the daylight hour to the afternoon. They are trying to stress that the reason for wanting the hour in the evening, is for lifestyle reasons. For example, A bbq with friends, playing with the kids in the park, maybe going for an afternoon drive.. these are things that, with the hour added to the amount of light already available after work, would make the most of these events... and no they would not be possible to do if the hour of light was available in the morning instead.
There is also the issue that SEQ already is light a 4am so for people to have light at 5am instead but light till later would probably benefit them more. On the other hand, for people who live in Northern qlds the hours of daylight are different in this part of the state and many from SEQ do not fully understand how these people would be affected.
Someone made a comments about kids and being out in the heat. I can assure you that the part of the day you really need to be concerned about is when the children are at school anyway, Regardless of wether you have DLS or not. SO this comment is irrelevant.

I dont not believe that QLD has to have the one time zone and think that the state would benefit from having the southern section follow DLS and the northern stay as is. But this is my opinion based on reasearch i have conducted on advantages for the state vs disadvantages. These advantages are not realy existent in the whole state.

One thing i am not going to do is make biggoted comments like , go back to your own state, using the word mexicans ( as far as i am aware the only mexicans that exist actually live in Mexico), saying that qld should start to behave like the smart state, etc...

As i said, i think of myself as an Australian, not a queenslander, on a New South Welshman or any of the others labels i could choose to attach to myself. And i fully expect everyone to have different opinions on the topic based on their feelings and experiences, but PLEASE, dont let what other nationalities say about Australians be true. Lets demonstrate that we are not a bunch of redneck illiterates and actually post some well planned out arguments.

If Queensland does not want DS then don’t have it! You Queenslanders are running your state not us in the southern states! Personally I am like 97.9% of New South Welshmen and we don’t give a hoot about Queensland. Australia as a whole is a fantastic place and each state has its fantastic attributes. Queensland has beautiful beaches and xlnt weather...but I do not wish to live there. This whole DS thing is just a state Vs state argument driven by a minority of politicians and people who have nothing better to do with their lives. Queensland people do not want to not have DS. End of subject. Who cares anyway...It’s like Victorians who try to convince the world that their state is better than NSW because they are the Sporting Mecca of the world and they have better restaurant, better shopping. Good on them! They probably do..but who cares!!!!! I am an Australian and I travel to all the states and enjoy each of the great attributes that you have to offer. I just came back from the fantastic Margret River in WA and beautiful Perth. Had to change my watch for a week but I’m still alive with no side effects. Just to let you know, I am a shift worker in the Blue Mountains NSW and you don’t see me carrying on like a broken toy about DS. Get over it, Live with it, vote it out or in. Just shut the winging. If your business cant trade with Queensland because of DS, stuff them and trade with Vanuatu...they on the same time as Eastern States.

A thought - why do we enjoy weekends and holidays so much? .... because we can sleep in ....!!!!!

I hate Daylight Saving with passion, having experienced it it Townsville when it was trialled in Queensland. When we finished school in daylight saving time it was far too hot to 'enjoy' being outside. By the time it was cool enough I was tired and it felt like a very long day, having had to get up earlier than I chose. The dictates of our body clocks are disturbed too. Eating before dark and watching the news in daylight! Before long teachers, students and parents were irritable.

A look at a map will show that Townsville is further west than Roma and a bit east of Cunnamulla and Charleville so our sunrise is later than in the south-east corner. How far north one lives is also relevant in this sun cancer capital of the world.

Schools now try to arrange play times so that children are less exposed to the sun. With daylight saving they will be going home and out to play in high UV time. How many of us adults have suffered sun damage or lost people to melonoma?

Points I think should be considered are:

1. Exposure to the sun in the high UV part of the day. HEALTH!
2. There are valid reasons for saying that the north (of Australia) is different from the southern temperate regions. GEOGRAPHY.
3. There are so many ways to communicate these days that I don't believe the different time zones can be such a problem for business - let them use electronic equipment or employ some willing workers for flexible hours.
4. I am affronted to think that BUSINESS would try to dictate the lifestyle of so many people. The 'extra' hours of sunlight don't mean that we have any more money to spend.
5. Let the southern states justify the use of daylight saving, rather than coerce us into joining them. Surely the people in southern states also dislike having their lives disrupted. (I do realise that they have a much greated quota of sunlight in summer than they have in winter.)
6. WHO BENEFITS? Businessmen of families?

when people talk about the people in the northern hemisfere going to bed when it is still light they seem to forget that it is also freezing cold and to go to bed to get warm is a good option.

so please dont make comparisons to cold climates when it is a hot climate here in australia.

i live in north qld and ds is one of the most hedious things here .we have tried it and it just does not work ,
when people talk about the benefits , what are they realy , just more leisure time , which in reality is a falisy.as most people will not go to the beach or will not spend it with the kids they will most likely stay at work or just spend the time drinking .
there is no real benefits to the general public, maybe a few benefits too a few businesses. and i realy dont know of to many employees that would be happy to change their life style so the company they work for can be better of,
so please dont come with the idea that we will all benefit because in reality we wont .

What is wrong with you people? Are you so hyped up that you can't sit back, relax, and enjoy the Qld summer mornings? It's the only time of the day that is cool enough to chill out. Slow down for pete's sake and lower your blood pressure. If you want to start work earlier - do it! There will be less traffic. As for referendums - do it Australia wide and include a winter option and an all year round option. Nothing upsets the body clock more than changing to another time zone.

I personally support the motion to split the state of queensland into two different time zones. By doing this it will allow the southeast corner more light and what will seem a longer day. This will also allow the northern and western pasts of queensland to function as normal without the issue of daylight saving being brought up. The only problem is that the parts that are chosen for the daylight savings could be near a neighbouring town the is not affected by daylight savings, this is the oonly problme facing the split time zones in Queensland.

I do appreciate the arguments for some WA residents to reject the idea of daylight saving but feel that the benefits are not being addressed properly. How wonderful to get home from work and still have daylight rather than simply looking out of the window during the day and seeing the non-working population and outdoor workers enjoying the sun. If people with young families don't like putting their children to bed when it's still daylight, imagine what it's like in many Northern Hemisphere countries where it's still light at 10:00 pm - just get used to it.

We in WA live in a truly amazing State and extra daylight allows us to enjoy the beauty even more, without having to close our doors and switch on the lights. Enjoy the daylight, there's enough dark in winter.

I don't see many sensible reasons from the 'pro' side, I see lots of 'moron', 'stupid', 'backward', 'get with the times'. I see some suggesting, 'more time outside with the kids', or 'more time out getting fit'.. yeah right.. if daylight savings were in winter. In summer, daylight savings just means more time inside with the aircon on after work waiting for the sun to go down and for it to cool down outside, and when it does, it's bed time for the kids anyway. And somehow daylight savings supposed to be 'environmentally friendly'??? For the southern states where they actually enjoy the sun in summer, I am sure it's great. But if you must have daylight savings up here, do it in winter!!
And then there is the business reasons.. sorry, but if you think business is more important than lifestyle, then no-one should move their clocks!

Since we have already said 'no' in a referendum, what would happen if we did decide to take summer daylights savings on? Would we have another referendum in 15 years to find out if we still want it?? Don't think any of the other states have done that?? Seems a lot of 'pro' people just want to keep asking until they get their way!

In a nutshell, I spend all of the current daylight away from home Mon - Fri with work. Traveling to and from work has now increased with the extra distances from the city to the suburbs and the extra traffic on our congested roads. To have 1hr extra daylight in the late afternoon/evening would be great for many reasons, exercising, wash the car, mow the lawn, plenty of things I could do outside. We should just give it a go and enjoy.

Anyone who thinks we should NOT have D.S. in at least SEQ is a complete moron! Wake up ya losers and stop living in the dark ages like unfortunately too many Queenslanders do! Gone are the days when Brisbane and the south east were big country towns and backwaters, SEQ is the fastest growing region in the country and we need to keep up with the rest of the country or once again we'll just get left behind and become another try hard conservative place no one wants to come!!!!! Get over it and just introduce it!!!!

what about the people that start work at 2:30 am in the morning have you tried going too sleep at6 pm with the sun beating down on your windows &30 degree temp outside

I'm a west Australian and I hate this three year daylight saving trial that they forced us into and didn't even consider what we thought. It might be okay for the city people or the people who live in the bigger towns, but what about the farmers? I get up at 6 am in normal time to get things done in the morningbefore I go to school and it is barely daylight then, Yes daylight saving would be reasonable in winter so that we get more aftrnoon sun (what is left of it), but in summer,no way, I do the sheep on the farm and in the summer, I'll usually get up with the sun, about 5:30/5:00 to move the sheep in the cooler part of the day with the sun coming up to shed light instead of the afternoon where it's stil hot and the light is failing. because I get up at 6:00 normal time now, I'll have to get up at what would have 5:ooam, and go to school drowsy from the lack of sleep as the sun didn't go down till, what, 6:15 at the mo and about 7:00, in the middle of october, so I go to bed later and get up earlier to do things, cutting outsome of my sleep time which I don't get enough of now.
I'm also a Seventh-day adventist and if u don't know what that is, then look it up, baisically, the sabbath for me is sunset friday to sunset saturday and we don't do anything like whatch the tv or anythin like that betweeen those times, so I now have no saterday night due to daylight saving, anyway u get, my point??

For the life of me I don't know why, but it seems daylight saving is back on the agenda. I made lists FOR and AGAINST and the only one I had in FOR was because other states do it.Being a true Queenslander that one should go in the AGAINST list too. Since daylight saving was introduced down south our lifestyles have changed dramatically. People actually enjoy doing things in the morning while the weather is still cool, before they go to work or school. Look at the economic damage caused in the coastal towns of WA last summer - imagine what it would do to the Gold and Sunshine Coasts. I believe if you polled the Mexicans (south of the border) instead of us it might be them who change their time zone. They haven't had their say since 1976. Why would you want your kids leaving school at 2pm - so they can hang around shopping centers or play computer games because it is too dangerous in the sun. Do you like coming home earlier to a hot house knowing that you have to wait an extra hour before the weather cools down - hey, lets buy an air conditioner and help warm the planet a bit more. I won't even start on the inconvenience of cooking the evening meal, the old man missing the 6 o'clock news or trying to get the kids to bed - they are private issues others probably will not understand. I don't have curtains and I don't have cows but the truth is that lots of SE Qld country people have jobs to do before they go to school or work.Lots of kids in the city work after school, come home tired and need to do their homework before school. We said NO in 1992. I do believe there are merits to having daylight saving in winter - you get up in the dark anyway and an hour of warmth in the afternoon would be appreciated.

Yes I said YOUS deliberatly. Everytime I cross the border it's all I here them ( qld ) say.

Geez come on qld it is 2007 !! soon it will be 2008 !!! Get with the program ! You call yourselves the smart state ? The sun is up the same amount of hours !! Just because the number plates say yous smart doesnt mean you really are. Derrr !!

Pretty soon the summer months will be upon us again and the sun will be waking around 4.00am, at least with Daylight Savings that would mean the sun would be rising around 5.00am (well our clocks would say so anyway)a little bit more civilized time to wake don't you think?. For people that work, the extra hour of daylight would be of much more benefit at the end of the day rather than having to wake at the crack of dawn. This would mean to me and my family more time in the PM to spend family time outside with sports etc when we get home at night. Daylight savings would hopefully help the obesity problems with some of our children. I will be the first to admit I am ignorant of what happens up north and out west, but I am sure the cows and other animals do not wear watches and live by the sun rise and sunset as per in the city. South East Qld has moved along away since the last referendum. I think it is time we all were able to have our say again with another one, you may find the traditional Queenslander is now out numbered by the southerners have that have migrated.

Why daylight savings?????????? cause it is just not right!!!!!!!
all of the people that i have talked to don't think it is a good idea. So i am sorry but i dont agree!!!!!

I'm with those people opposed to DS,I live in SE Qld and hated the trial we had previously.I like the seasons the way they are thank you.
With DS you just do things an hour earlier, including watching your favourite TV programme or News after you come home,how stupid is that! do you think the TV Stations would defer for 1 hR.and as for working outside after you come home, how many people do that? If you want to work in the garden or go for a walk, do it early AM when it is cool.An ex Victorian told me recently she liked DS besause in Vic the winters are cold and wet, and when summer comes along they want to enjoy as much sunlight as they can. Excuse me, you are not in Vic now, our climate is just fine thank you.What is needed is more sensibe debate on the subject,not that because we had it down south we want to change QLd, and as for splitting the state time zone, that is not an option.

I have played both sides of the DLS argument in my life. I am a West Aussie and previously had a job that required me to fly around Australia on a regular basis. Let me tell you I was most definitely "for" DLS then; less recovery time after flying, ease of doing business with the east coast, more daylight time once landing to adjust to being in another city etc etc etc. I now live in Kalgoorlie, 600km east of Perth. DLS has badly affected the people and community here.

Yes it is hot, but it's a dry stinging heat and with the ocean being some 400kms away it's not the kind of heat you can enjoy being in. I coach a couple of junior sport teams and it is dangerously hot at 4pm in the afternoon when they start training. I hate to think of the kids who have to walk home from school at 3pm! So instead of "getting out and enjoying a beer and BBQ with friends" we are holed up inside in the airconditioning trying to cool down so that we can go and cook dinner. The kid are playing on the Playstation, rather than going outside to play - deifintely not the healthier option in my view.

The next problem that is faced out here in the Mining Industry is that many people START work by their watches, but FINISH when the sun goes down. To my city friends who say that is 'stupid' and that they should 'just leave work when it gets to 5pm' have absolutely no idea how the most profitable industry in Australia operates. Talk about taking it for granted!! So rather than getting home at 6:30 - 7ish, my husband is often not home until 8 - 8:30. More time with the kids? Rubbish. They have already gone to bed (as I agree getting them to bed is not a matter of daylight, but timing). Dinner for us it around 9:30 bed way too late and then up at 5am (regardless of daylight)

I understand how the cities and coastal areas would benefit from DLS, but have a thought for the mining centres where the guys work their guts out keeping the Australian economy going. We have enough problems out here as it is with Men's health, DLS is making it worse.

We have to ask why daylight savings was introduced anywhere at all? My guess is lifestyle? The southern states enjoyed the extra hour of daylight after working hours. In Queensland it seems most people waited for the sun to set before they went outside to do 'stuff' in Summer. Therefore daylight savings didn't suit their lifestyle.
Now it seems Queensland is being pressured to adopt DS, but for what reasons? It seem the common 2 are cross state busniess transactions and the mindset that not having DS is 'stupid', 'dumb' or 'backwards'. As for business, why is it fair to ask a state to adopt DS for busniess reasons, when everyone else only adopted it for lifestyle reasons? If business is more important than lifestyle, why should anyone move their clock at all and why don't we have a national time zone?
As for the taunting reaons, other than the clock being one hour back'wards' in Qld vs other eastern states, I don't see any reason why not adopting it would be 'stuipd' or 'dumb'

i would like some one from the pro dls to come to nth qld and experience what we are talking about .
i will subsidise some one air fare to do it as long as they come and work the hours that we do , not the 9 to 5 job
amd also spend some time seeing what its like for people with young children putting them on a school bus very early in the a m and see if you want your children to have to do that

For the record I'm 100% for daylight saving.

Don't hate me, but yes, I am a southerner who moved to Brisbane several years ago. One interesting thing about Queenslanders that I've noticed, and find quite perculiar, is their complete intolerance of heat. "Whinge whinge whine, it's so hot". I'm sorry, but where I lived in northern NSW it was just as hot. I lived out in western NSW for a time and I've never experience so many days over 40. Even western Sydney can be a lot hotter than Qld's east coast. So to all you Queenslanders telling me to "go back home" perhaps you lot could try some interstate migration of your own. If you find eating dinner at 7pm too hot then you're living in the wrong state. Tasmania is lovely and cool most of the year round - go try it.

Don't let it rest until we get our daylight savings! Come on Beattie - have some guts!!

well peter you iobviously dont live outside of the se corner,
we have tried dls in qld and it is the most disruptive thing there is to lifstyle in the north and west of the state.
the only reason people want dls is to have more leisure time, so WHY should we have to put up with changing our lifestyle so you can improve yours,
it has got nothing to do with curtains but let me tell you the people who feed this country would be baddly disadvantaged,
just so you can have another hour after work to drink more booze,
the fact that qld doesnt want dls just shows that we are smarter than the rest , they are to dumb to see that it is no good for anything .
i already get out of bed every morning at 4.30 to get to work and why would i want to extend my day , in the north we cant wait for the sun to go down so we can get some relief from the heat,
and as far as families having more time together is a fairytale,
if you get up at7 go to work till 5 get home and put the kids to bed at 7.30 to 8 where is the extra time , you pro dls keep telling us the day is no longer so where do you get the extra time from .
its about time you started to look at this from others point of view ,
we have had 2 referendums and both said no ,
and it is people like yourself that would like the govt to do what they did in the west and strip people of thier rights to have a say ,
if you want you split time zone then fine but leave all the smart people int the rest of the state alone

I think QLD worked hard enough to get a name of not too smart state and we want to preserve it. Introducing any, let me repeat ANY logical solutions to current problems in this state would ruin the way the world sees us.
Introducing daylight savings would be like teaching people good manners or logical thinking - potentially very dangerous (especially for government). The blinds would fade quicker, kids wouldn't go to bed, people wouldn't watch brainwashing tv channels like 7 or 9 and drinking beer in front of TV because they would still have time to enjoy the sun, instead of going to bed at 20.30. The fact that daylight savings work everywhere else in the world suggest quite clearly that it shouldn’t be introduce here in our not too smart state!!!

Well they can shove the yes decision right up their jacksies.

We're going to create Caltex Coolgardie time and make the rest of the state revolve around us. Wouldn't that be a fine thing?

Most people here in the Goldfields start work at either 6am, 2pm or 10pm. Personally I start at 6 and just when I am able to get up with the chooks at daybreak, without an alarm, and even potter around a bit before I have to go to work, we're getting daylight saving.

It's hard enough now getting kids up at 5am and to bed before 8pm. I'm going to have buckleys while the sun is still out at 8.30pm and dark in the morning.

I'm really quite pissed off. And just wanted to have a whinge. I truly don't understand why they want daylight saving so badly. We have quite enough now.

Well Anastiasia,
you have said it perfectely for the against people,
you talk about having to be at work at 8 , what about the people that start work now at 6 or 7 , for them it is almost impossible to get up with out it being dark.
and starting one hour earlier is all you are doing with dls time,, in fact you would be better of by just starting an hout earlier as when you finish work it would be only 4 .

i spent some time in the south east with my son , and i worked out side till it was to dark to see and when i went inside it was seven oclock, why would you want that to be 8 oclock.
it just doent make any sence at all .

in a refurendum it would require a 75% in favour of dls ,and even in the south east it isnt that hight, because a lot of people that start early now dont want it because it is not a good thing , it is purely for the benefit of a few and a disadvantage of many .
and why should we have to be inconvienced so a few can have an extra hour of light , when all they have to do is get out of bed earlier,
i will be activly fighting againts dls thats for sure

I am sick of people saying "get up earlier" so you can simulate daylight savings.
I think the initial idea behind daylight savings was that working peolpe could spend a couple of daylight hours outside, playing with their children for example, after finishing work at an average time of 5pm.
I can quite often have to be at work at 8am and sometimes dont finish till 6pm. Some daylight hours to spend outdoors after work would be a blessing. If i did get up any earlier it would be dark anyway!!
I really think Peter Beatie needs to hold a referendum on this and have two results..one for rural and one for urban QLD. If the rural people dont want it..fine at least let us have it. Better to have a split time line in some rural, widespread community than in the middle of a CBD like on the Gold Coast (Tweed).

The problem in the ongoing debate about daylight saving in Queensland is that the rapidly growing urbanized coastal strip in southeastern Queensland lies so far to the east in relation to the rest of the state. Its southern location exacerbates the problem during summer.

In winter the sun rises in a line parallel to the Queensland coast with the result that the coastal cities have sunrise at much the same time. In summer the sun rises in a line parallel to the NSW coast with the result that the southeastern corner of Queensland has sunrise even earlier in relation to the rest of the state than would be expected from its eastern location.

Mean solar time is the average time of the day when the sun is at its highest point. Queensland is an enormous state and therefore has a wide variation in the mean solar times for its different regions. The mean solar time for Brisbane is 11:45am. By contrast the mean solar time for Cairns is about 40 minutes later at 12:25pm and Mt Isa a full hour later at 12:45pm.

Local authorities when choosing a time zone for a region try to ensure that the mean solar time will fall between 12:00pm and 1:00pm. This is the time band that will allow maximum utilization of the daylight hours for the majority of people in that region. All the major centres in Australia, with the exception of Brisbane, fall into this time band e.g. Adelaide 12:20pm, Darwin 12:45pm, Melbourne 12:25pm, Perth 12:20pm and Sydney 12:05pm.

Time zones allow local time to approximate the mean solar time. There has been a general trend to push the boundaries of time zones further west in order to create a permanent daylight saving time effect. Urban regions are more likely to embrace this than rural areas. As will be the case next year in Australia, there is also a worldwide trend to extend the period of daylight saving. The local authorities are aware of the benefits to lifestyle, energy savings, road safety and crime prevention that occur from this shift west.

The higher latitudes of the southern regions of Australia result in relatively longer daylight hours during summer and this allows some leeway in shifting the mean solar time to a band between 1:00pm and 2:00pm. During daylight saving the mean solar time for Adelaide, Perth and Melbourne will be an hour later at about 1:20pm. Darwin at its lower latitude does not have this leeway and its mean solar time remains at 12:45pm year round.

At latitudes of less than 28º (approximately the SEQ region) daylight hours vary less between summer and winter and there is very little leeway to shift the mean solar time outside of the 12:00pm to 1:00pm time band. This is well illustrated by comparing Cairns and Melbourne. Both are positioned along similar lines of longitude (145º E) and therefore have similar mean solar times (12:25pm). In Melbourne the sun rises at around 7:30am in July and around 5:15am in January without daylight saving. Daylight saving shifts sunrise in January to around 6:15am which is still over 75 minutes earlier than in winter. Cairns however has sunrise at around 6:00am in January and around 6:45am in July. If daylight saving were introduced in Cairns, sunrise would move to around 7:00am in January or at least 15 minutes later than in mid-winter!

In Brisbane shifting the clocks in summer would result in sunrise during January still being about 40 minutes earlier than in July. This time difference decreases rapidly north of Brisbane and becomes negative north of Bundaberg. This demonstrates how inappropriate and unworkable statewide daylight saving would be.

Most people would therefore agree that regions north of about 28º S do not need daylight saving provided that their mean solar times fall between 12:00pm and 1:00pm. SEQ is the only urbanized region in Australia (irrespective of latitude) where mean solar time does not fall between 12:00 pm and 1:00pm. As noted above, its location in the southern part of Queensland exacerbates the problem in summer. Thus the call from the southeastern corner is not so much about introducing daylight saving but rather about shifting the mean solar time for the region from 11:45am to 12:45pm. The rest of Queensland is already in the correct time zone and therefore opposes daylight saving as this would shift the mean solar time in that region to the band between 1:00pm and 2:00pm.

There is an argument that SEQ should be an hour ahead of the rest of Queensland year round based on a mean solar time of 12:45pm (the same as Darwin). The benefit would be that the last warm hour of winter sunshine could be utilized by more people as it would occur an hour later between 5pm to 6pm. The drawback would be that the sun would rise an hour later but even in mid-winter it would still be starting to get light by 7:10am at the latest. SEQ would then essentially then have the same times of daylight throughout the year that Mount Isa has at present.

Daylight saving and time zones are two very different issues.

Daylight saving is best utilized in the southern states which have latitudes of over 28º and longer summer days. Two time zones are required in states with large east-west dimensions irrespective of latitude whose range of solar time exceeds one hour or if the solar time range for the region is skewed to one side or the other of the 12:00pm to 1:00pm band.

Queensland fulfils both criteria for a state that needs two time zones. In its current time zone the mean solar time range is from 11:45am to12:55pm. The mean solar time is therefore skewed to the left (11:45am to 12:00pm) and has a range of greater than one hour.

Ten of the larger states in the USA ranging from Florida to Oregon have two time zones. All of them with the exception of Texas have a land area less than a quarter the size of Queensland. The western part of the Florida panhandle (a region of 200km by 60km representing less than 10% of the land area of Florida) is in a different time zone to the rest of the state. Although the state capital is only 75km to the east of this region, the residents of that region have decided that the advantages of being in the correct time zone outweigh the disadvantages of being in a different time zone to the capital and the rest of the state. Tennessee and Kentucky, unable to fit into one of the existing time zones without skewing their mean solar time band to one side or the other, have elected to have two time zones. The states are divided almost exactly in half by the time zone line. The states could have fitted into a single time zone with a half hour time difference to the states around them, but it would appear that two time zones is the preferred option.

Five of the ten provinces of Canada utilize two time zones. The province of British Columbia in Canada is of similar geographic size and shape as Queensland. The southeastern corner of British Columbia (an area no bigger than the Brisbane/Ipswich/Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast region) is one hour ahead of the rest of the province. I lived in the middle of British Columbia for five years and was unaware of any opposition to or controversy regarding the two time zones. There is no “deep chasm” - Premier Beatties words last week - dividing the people of British Columbia. The two time zones enable the people of British Columbia to live in their geographically correct time zone and utilize the daylight hours. British Columbia, as reflects its high latitude, also has daylight saving.

The business community in SEQ wants daylight saving while the business community in the rest of Queensland is against it. This reflects the view of the people in each of their regions and it is not surprising that each business community supports that regional view. Despite what some people think, business is not the prime mover for SEQ to adopt daylight saving. It is the people of southeastern Queensland.

The argument that two time zones would shift a Queensland/NSW problem to an intrastate problem has some merit but is insignificant when compared to the lifestyle, energy and road safety benefits that the people in SEQ would immediately have. One time zone for Queensland business may be convenient but it is not essential. In other parts of the world any inconvenience of having two time zones in one state is easily adapted to and accommodated.

It is not surprising that the new demographics, increasing urbanization and changing lifestyle demands in southeastern Queensland are creating the perfect storm that is increasing the momentum for changing the clocks in that region.

On the other hand, the fierce opposition to changing the clocks in the rest of the state will continue. The regions latitude and position in the correct time zone will ensure that this position will never change. The residents of the region have been unfairly maligned over their entirely appropriate and correct views on daylight saving in their region.

In summary, Queensland needs two time zones for at least the summer months based purely on its latitude and broad range of solar time.

Until the need for two time zones is recognized the perennial issue of daylight saving in Queensland will never be resolved.

I have started the wheels in motion to get a petition going AGAINST dls ,
those that are against dls we must take action to counteract the petition in the south so we dont get rail roaded into some thing that is bad for us,
i will inform people via web sites and media as soon as it is ij position for people to have their say and vote.

thanks

Watched the Melbourne cup presentation in Federation square the other night on T.V.
In Caloundra it was 6:30pm and as black as a bats boudior outside. Yet, there in Melbourne it was bright light. No wonder the southerners want ddaylight saving.
But it would not work in Queensland .Vive La difference!!

Would some one please tell me what the reaL benefits are of dls.
all the talk both ways about it and no one has given any real benefits , apart form some business being in line with the other states , thats no big deal as we still will always have time differences in australia reguardless of whether we have dls or not.

and if anyone says financial, then why do we have to change our life style so some people can have more money , there is more to life than money , and its about time we had some real sence on this subject,
people call for a split state on dls, so , the people in the south east dont care that the people in the north are on a different time to them as long as it doesnt affect them . sounds pretty selfish to me .
starting work earlier is the best way to have dls, as instead of getting home when the clock says 5 you are home at 4 , now you have just as long an afternoon to walk the dog and drink more beer,
so , i would like to hear some real good sound reasons for dls, not just money , leisure and a few business making more money .

I think that WA has hit on a good idea in telling people what they are going to get and allow them to vote on it in 3 yrs time. This system should be a part of our political voting system. Just throw in any old political contender and see how they go and vote for them 3 years later. It saves the step of asking them what they really want. It would work well on their salaries and pensions to. Maybe we should have daylight saving in winter in Queensland when the days are shorter. Power savings are minimal now with energy saving bulbs and more efficient cars.

I would like to share with you a couple of thoughts about daylight saving.
I am new to Queensland. We moved here just 3 years ago and I must say that I love it here and fully enjoy perfect weather and perfect daylight. Most of my life I lived with daylight saving plans and know what it is and how people feel about it.
Saving electricity is the main reason for DST in Europe.
It is very easy to calculate the saving of electricity by implementing the scheme, and I am sure it is already done by business people. It is not that easy to calculate the harm it makes to our health.

Our body is very sensitive instrument; it does get used to regime of the day. We do get hungry at the certain time of the day; feel sleepy at the certain time. Imagine how would you feel if you have to get up at 6 every morning to get to work in time and then all of the sudden you are up at 5? I remember how I felt. I felt irritated. It took me two to three week to adjust and I hated it. The adjustment takes longer as we get older. So those older people who still working are effected most. School aged children suffer too.
I’ve read endless pages that scientists and doctors wrote about effect that sudden time change brings. They pointed out visibly increased stress level for everybody during next month after change. And this increased stress level brings a collection of things specific for each person. For some of us it is few points higher blood pressure level, sleeplessness; for others - jumping insulin level, visibly increased number of heart problems and lost effectiveness for everyone.

Money rules this world but before you get inclined to save some money on electricity ask yourself how much it would cost you to fix your blood pressure level? How much does it cost you to feel good? Is there any sum of money in this world that can buy you a lost health?
We are so lucky to live in Paradise. Why spoil it for money?

Move with the times Queensland and get on with daylight saving. Stop telling the rest of the world they are wrong and we are right when it comes to daylight saving. The fading curtains and confused cows are a real worry though, not!!!

Judging from many of the responses (e.g. backward, moronic, not civilized, etc ho hum ad nausea..),
I'm pretty sure a lot of people don't understand the effect of _latitude_ on a) sunrise, b) sunset, c) length of twilight, d) length of day
The closer to the equator you go long the same north south line, the less variation of sunrise and sunset times, and the shorter the day and twilight gets.

The Daylight savings correction applied in Sydney actually moves their normally earlier sunrise one hour to roughly line up with Cairns, which has NO D.S.

I live in Brisbane, I think D.S would be great here, but in Cairns, sunrise would be made quite late. (20 to seven for ~15-dec-06).

I think the Tropic of Capricorn would be a logical place to split the timezones (~Rockhampton).

Having read the letters and some of the reasons given above are quite logical, so maybe the Dayight Saving Issue should result in a split state!

Imagine NSW from Sydney to Byron Bay being supportive or would it be Coffs Harbour?

A split somewhere on the North coast of NSW could join Queensland in staying 'normal'

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Leave out the personal invective when critisizing anyone for their views on DST
Conrrary to modern belief , an argument is not proffered by people denigrating opposing person.

your efforts should be put to betteer use by developing a logical argument without abuse or superior attitudes

The problem I have with DST is that in a QLD summer it is too hot and humid to eat dinner until 8pm, too hot an humid to sleep until about 11pm, and I get out of bed about 6am for work (I have curtains that stop the 5am sunrise waking me up). With DST I would be eating at 9pm, getting to bed at midnight and still waking up at 6am.

Unless they introduce those afternoon siestas up here, I've lost an hour of sleep per night....

I would prefer to have an extra hour in the morning to go surfing or to go for a ride when it is still cool than in the late afternoon when it is so hot and humid. Most people in Brisbane hide in the aircon from midday until the sun goes down during summer anyway, so what is the use of an extra hour of sunlight after work? Would anyone actually use it to go outside?

I like the comments from people saying they need an extra hour of sunlight in the afternoon to have a beer, or glass of wine, or play with the kids. Does your life end at sundown?

It seems the real reason people want DST is only for business convenience, there are no other valid reasons.

PS. I lived with DST in London and Melbourne and hated it in both cities....

I do not understand why we as Australians want to change the time. Surely the time is the time and not what we make it by changing a clock. If a company or a state wants to start earlier or finish earlier just change the start and finish time and leave the normal time alone. Life goes on the same without all this hoohah every year. Use the KISS principle ( Keep It Simple Stupid )and leave the time as it is and should be. Pleses take a look at nature! No changes there.
Thanks ( a Far North Queenslander )

I am totally against Daylight saving. I used to live in qld and have moved to nsw and can't think of anything worse than having to get up earlier. QLD have it right with not having daylight saving. Daylight Saving suxs and they should scrap it all together. Since I start work at 7am I will be getting up in the dark to get ready for work, instead of enjoying the beautiful daylight while dressing. Its a nightmare for me and alot of other people who have to get out of bed earlier than the lay abouts who start work at 9am and whinge they dont have enough time in the arvo;s. Get another job if thats the case!

Get with the times.
The last vote was 14 years ago, I thought we were suppose to be the smart state.
If those parent's can't get their children to do a simple little thing like getting out of bed 1 hour earlier well I think of the real problmes they will have with them in the future.
Exercising early in the morning can only effect your work as you will be sooo tried by the time you get there no wonder QLD is known for its bad Customor Service. The poor children are missing out too on that quality time again everyones too tried from the morning run etc. no wonder QLD children are the fattest.
Who was the stupid person that said having Dls will course more skin cancer thats like saying it makes the curtains fade more.
The wind drops in the evening too, take the whole family and your mates to the beach after work, relax have a BBQ, play, surf, walk, run and enjoy each others company with DLS you can do this.

you people are a joke if you want to get up one hour earlier then just get up! changing the hands on the clock doesnt mean you still get up at the same time, its one hour earlier.
You are just fooling yourselves that the time hasnt changed.

If you are going to have daylight saving in Queensland it should be all the year round not just a few monthe alter the eastern standard time by one or maybe two hours it may even save lives with people driving home in daylight

It makes me laugh reading through these pages and listening to the unbeleivable Bull**** both sides come up with. I am Qld born and bred and remember the trials of DS over the years. Some of the funny things like the curtains would fade due to the extra daylight hours and the dairy cows would get confused were great for a laugh. It is quite obvious that the divide is between country and city people. I read down below somewhere that "you should get up earlier" to enjoy the extra daylight. Great. This summer I am going to get out of bed at 4am when the sun comes up, crack a XXXX, get the kids out of bed to play on the swings and have a swim in the pool then I might get the kids to school and go to work. Great idea whoever came up with that one. Last time I checked I lived in Qld and a big part of our lifestyle is supposed to be a BBQ on the back deck in the arvo having a cold beer with some mates. I guess a lot of the people negative to DS don't have any mates or friends or family to spend time with and are just miserable old fa*rts. For myself, and 90% of the people I know, the extra daylight would be a boon.
To look at the against side of the argument last time I checked cows don't wear watches and they are going to come in at the same time no matter what. All this carry on about getting up an hour earlier and working in the hottest part of the day. STOP fooling yourself people. Show me a farmer that works by a watch and not by the sun and you can have my money. After all that sunrise and sunset don't change in the true sense of time so lets get Daylight Savings underway in QLD

cant getya kids to bed??? RUBBISH!

I was in Scandinavia and Iceland in July where the sun is mostly out and theres only a few hours of darkness and I found that kids were getting to sleep ok. So if they have been doin that for centuries so can we.

Apologies, just got swept up in a rage and misread!!!
For clarity everyone, it is John Newland who is the idiot - Not Graham!
John - wake up (an hour earlier), and if you cant figure out how to change the time on your computer you shouldnt be using one.!

Hey, don't blame me, it wasn't my comment!

Graham you idiot!
How do you think the rest of the world manages the that technical obstacle? There are way in excess of 1 million computers in NSW, VIC and the rest of the world, and guess what? They manage!!!.

Networked computers often get their time from a server, and stand alone have a VERY EASY manual adjustment process. Doh!!!!

It is idiots like you that will keep us in the dark ages!!!!

Have WA politicians given due consideration to the necessity for computers to be time adjusted also? With some 1million computers in WA most home and school users would possible find it difficult to manually adjust the computer clock or would not even bother. Many computers automatically update internal computer time to world time servers which will have no advance notice of Daylight Savings time adjustment.

I cannot believe the crap from the ill-informed morons against daylight savings.

Is it so hard to understand that you wont loose an hours sleep, the curtains wont fade, you wont use more electricity, it wont be hotter, the cows will still moo and produce milk and we ARE living in the 21st century!

As for the idiots that argue we should just start work earlier: If you don't like it then just start work an hour later!!!!

Get with the rest of the civilized world that entertains this all too easy and beneficial practice.

This concept was first proposed hundreds of years ago. I cannot believe WA and QLD are still so far behind everywhere else...

It's impossible to get the child (my much younger brother) into the shower, let alone bed, while it's still light. I lived with daylight savings for awhile, it was nothing short of exhausting. And why should WA keep up with the rest of the country? It's not like they care about us anyway. 3 'no' votes and it still goes through.... gives you lots of confidence in our so called "democratic" system.

Daylight saving is a load of crap, if people want more daylight start work earlier

I have lived all over Australia and most of the world. I get up early to excercise, at any time, light or dark, it makes no difference. Where it does make a difference is when at the end of a hard days work I wish to play with the kids i.e. kick a ball around which is very hard to so in the dark. After have some beers or wine with the wife or friends. Having beer in the morning is not a good idea before going to work. I have lived where there is DS and not. Those people who say "no" are those that have not fully experienced the benefits of DS to ones life. The whole of the Gold coast has changed their work ours so they can go for a surf in the morning and evening.
In summer the days get longer but in Queensland it gets dark at 6pm. Hence a majority of persons wish to have some extra daylight time in the evening with their families and friends.
Have a go you will be pleasantly surprised.

A few months ago the Subday Times had a one eyed opinion about daylight saving and a picture of someone running along a beach at 7pm in the dark in W.A and of course the opposite in the Eastern States. Well hello, who the heck is up to running along the beach at that hour of the night. The "Normal" people are home trying to get kids to bed and ready for another day of which we start at 6am. If you are so hell bent on having more daylight get up earlier. Theres no Freo Doc blowing, now that's the time to get to the beach nice and peaceful and best of all LIGHT. If you want to be in sync with the ES then move!! LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE! Where do I sign?

Is it not time to put away the silly excuses for not having daylight saving and enjoy all the benefits.

we need dls because of our busy lifestyle. we are always complaining about not enought time in a day

NO to DS. I start work at 5 AM and look forward to the comfort and security of actually starting work in the daylight come springtime. Also I have 2 small children and getting them to bed now at 8.30 is hard enough let alone when it would really only be 7.30. When I was a kid on the farm we had it for awhile and we were late for school nearly every day because we could only get the cows in in the light and didn't have time to finish all our work, have brekky and get ready for school. Whoever wants it either start work earlier or enjoy some time outside in the AM.

Time is a medium based Zulu or GMT. Regardless of 1hr removed or added, we will still have 24hrs in a day. You lose 1hr sleep when it kicks in and gain 1hr when it goes. Fot the remaining 5 months you'll get your normal sleep. Its a nighmare flying around the country. NSW, VIC and Tasie 1hr ahead, SA 1/2hr ahead .NT 1/2hr behind. WA 2hrs behind which will now become 1hr behind. Get with the program Qld.

If you want to start work early, easy, start work early!!!!. Like Tony said "Grow and Get used to it".

Well, listen to all the ring in new Queenslanders. All harping about lost work time because we don't follow suit with our southern neighbours. We live in paradise and I tend to think that's why people move here, relaxed lifestyle!!! So if you don't like, go back to where you came from!!!

After three referendums voting against dls, it has been forced in here by politicians. A three year trial to endure for the majority of people who had their say the last time.
Instead of rushing the bill through parliament, we should have spent the effort in trying to get the ES to stop dsl over there - thus eliminating the argument of "keeping in line".
How does it save electricity? I'd have thought that the air conditioners tend to go off once the sun goes down and it gets cooler. Well that's now going to be later isn't it?
The next thing will be they'll use this type of technique to introduce Sunday trading - even though it got the big rejection. It's the influential minority having it's way over the majority that is wrong about how this has been done.

If you haven't experienced Daylight Saving yet, the only thing you have missed is a nightmare.

For all you people who want DLS, the answer is simple. Stop moaning, take your pick of any other State in Australia and move to it. In the meantime the remainder of us will continue to enjoy proper time.

Whilst I am for daylight savings, I also know that in Queensland it will probably never come in.

And yet, not having daylight savings is detrimental to Queensland businesses.

What's the solution?

If you run a business in Queensland that relies more on interstate customers than locals, simply change your opening hours.

Our company hours will be 7am to 4pm from next week. Not only will we get to enjoy the sunny afternoons with our children after school, but we will beat the 9-5ers traffic jams too.

If you don't own the business, why not mention the idea to your boss?

Bring on DLS we need it all the feeble reasons not to have it are ot worth listening to

Anyone who is against daylight saving is an idiot!!!!

Anyone who says just get up 1 hour earlier in the morning to exercise instead of doing it after work is a simplistic idiot!!!

When do you get the most enjoyment out of spending time with your family. First thing in the morning or after work. As a soon to be father I would much rather have the 1hr extra daylight at the end of the day to spend with my new son or daughter.

There are no logical reasons against DS only emotional ones BUT there are many logical reason for having DS.

opponents of daylight savings here say "leave time alone" or "time is time". Do they realise that the time is only a quantity relative to GMT, a completely man-made constuct. If we shift the time by one hour, then the original time is no more valid than the daylight savings time.

The daylight savings issue always brings out the uneducated majority who don't understand the concept.

Go Daylight Savings !

I hate daylight saving. I could go on and on with good reasoning. But it would take up to much of my time.life is already going quick enough without cranking up our clocks. STICK TO THE REAL TIME.

For all those southerners who want to come to Queensland and ruin the place I might just tell them if they werent so lazy and got out of bed one hour earlier and went and did some exercise in the early morning instead of whining about after work activities they may find out what Queenslanders already know.The sun is bright at 4am and the temperature is pleasant.Just perfect for a bike ride or brisk walk. Have look and see the thousands already doing this.If you dont like it go back south and don`t try to ruin what is special about Queensland.

Please get with it WA. Make the most of our glorious weather .Move with the times!

We have had daylight Savings three times in my lifetime in Queensland, and whilst I was too young to remember the first time the other times convinced me to reject it. I cannot believe the hatred displayed on this blog, by people from elsewhere, towards Queenslanders because of their attitude towards Daylight savings.
I have lived in Townsville, Mt. Isa,and the Sunshine Coast, and Daylight Savings is a nonsence in all these Areas . It is akin to cutting a strip off your blanket at one end to sew it on the other end to make the blanket longer and more comfortable. In othe words if you want to enjoy all the things you crave in the Afternoon just get up in the morning and partake of them then .
A survey in 1999 by an A.B.N.Amro Morgans economist showed that there was no noticable detriment to the economy of Queensland because it didn't have Daylight Saving , but rather it was purely a lifestyle issue .
Being a life style issue my sympathy lies with the wealth creators of this State. Those people who live and work earning more than the total export income of N.S.W.,v.i.c., S.A., T.A.S combined and who create the wealth for the lifestyle we enjoy and they are the people in our Mining Industries, Pastoral and Commercial enterprises north of the tropic if Capricorn . A place I might add that a lot of people who have contributed to this blog have never been other than to go to a holiday destination and mix with people of like mind, rather than getting out and finding out what the real issues about Daylight Saving are.

I moved to Brisbane a few years ago and greatly enjoy the lifestyle up here. However to not have daylight davings is absurd. It starts to get light at 4am in the middle of summer (which is very disconcerting if you are having a big night!).

I have a very hard time convincing my friends down south that Queensland is not a backwards State. That argument is made nearly impossible because of the fact that Queensland has no daylight savings. All of the anti-daylight savings arguments are 'simple' at best, or use dueling banjos logic at worst.

Peter Beattie is a coward for not introducing something that clearly has popular support.

This site is too big/long. I just printed out the sight and it printed out 10 pages!! I suggest that you make another site or create branches off this site that are more spicific. I believe that this would help kids immensely that are researching daylight savings. " this is just a suggestion and i know that this site isn't just for kids or students".

Thanks

Queensland has a lot of growth potential, and desperately needs daylight saving.

Common in all referendums is the unequal balance of votes between country and city. Having been born in Roma yet now live in the south-east of QLD, I can see a need for DS in city areas and a need agains't in country areas! Voting statistics indicate a yes in the city and a no in the country. Why not offer DS only to city areas in each state? Country is then happy! As for me, I can then look forward to a better lifestyle after my all day but sitting office job (even if it is just an hour)!

Phillip Orr states that NSW likes DS - let me tell you only the Sydney area likes it - I have sons in Lismore and Grafton and they and all their inlaws hate it. I have a sister at Hay and all the western area of the state hate it - they have no say because of the population in the Sydney area. Leave the clocks alone and start an hour earlier in the summer if you must come into line with southerners who believe that you can save daylight. One comment stated that it saves electricity - well it does not do so in the north, we would get up in the dark all year round and have to use more electricity. Save electricity as well as water by getting rid of your swimming pools.

Bring on DLS in WA ASAP

West Aussie here,

Just saw the Nov 27th Edition of the Sunday Times and they're talking up a campaign to bring Daylight Savings back to WA.
And yeah, Daylight Savings... Scrap it completely!
Time is TIME. Unless Australia is a nation full of "Robots" that don't have a "Natural" sense of time that people have, Daylight savings is meaningless madness. You can slap a label on time, but you cannot in any way alter it.

My vote on Daylight Savings.... F*** NO!

Yes to DLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes its hot in Queensland. So what? They don't call us the sunshine state for nothing. I am so sick of hearing about how hot is is. This is Queensland people! Move down South if you want to have cool afternoons. Some of us love the heat! To feel the sun on your face, to be able to swim in the cool water and than come out and lie in the hot sand. Its heaven! Say yes to DLS!!

Why do we have to have the arbitrary man-made boundaries of the states which are over 150 years old. If the SE corner wishes to join the other southern backward states, change the boundaries. Only a small part of Queensland is in the sub-tropics the remainder is in the tropics.

Not ALL OF AUSTRALIA has DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME and (for ONCE) a political leader (Peter Beattie) is being faithful to a referendum (the QUEENSLAND REFERENDUM on Daylight Saving) that VOTED NO to daylight saving.

DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME only makes sense in areas where (seasonally) DAYLIGHT continues well into the night!

Probably what should be done is for DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME to be abolished, Australia keeping to EASTERN STANDARD TIME and the businesses in any area that WANT TO change their trading hours to suit regional sun up/down patterns!

And to make life more comfortable for THE PEOPLE of QUEENSLAND what we needs a system such as followed in New Caledonia where lunch hours are extended to keep people OUT OF THE HEAT of MID-DAY!!!!

In response to Gillian, some people are poached for employment roles as there is a shortage of skills in Qld, hence my comment about Qld's financial and intellectual growth.

Ladies and gentlemen, it has been an eye-opener to witness the level of contentiousness with which this issue has been debated, not only on this particular site, but throughout QLD as a whole. Daylight saving is the subject of a documentary that is currently in the preliminary stages of production, and I, along with my partners, would like to invite you to take part by giving you the opportunity to put your views forward. If you would like to contribute your views regarding daylight savings in QLD please send us an email detailing your arguments. We will also be looking for interviewees on both sides of the DS debate as part of this production. You can make a difference! Please send your opinions to: daylightsaving@optusnet.com.au - and feel free to let your friends and family know too. Thank-you for your help - [G NEWTON]

It is sad that all of Australia except Queensland is told by the government what time to set their clocks. So therefore the government is telling them what time to get out of bed.

For heavens sake introduce daylight savings! Mr Beattie! Getting up at 3:30 am to catch a 5:00am flight interstate is seriously no fun! You loose hours of sleep time wondering whether you will actually wake up on time! - and the extra cost to stay the night before, well it costs money, which small business sometimes just can't really afford! Why not split the state time zone, north of Noosa EST and SE Qld daylight saving. It makes sense given the northern part of Qld is above SA which is a different time zone anyway! Surely it can't be that hard?

We live in a world where we are meant to be flexible - interstate in a day? so why not?

I experienced double daylight saving in UK, which was wonderful. Also loved daylight saving in Tas & Vic. It was great to have that extra sunlight after work. And, yes, kids soon learn to sleep in daylight.

BUT I hated the year we tried it in SE Qld. In a hot humid climate, we can't wait to see that sun go down. We never feel like eating until the sun's gone. We never get in our pool till the sun's on its way out. We love to go dancing. During daylight saving it was too hot to dance until quite late. The house didnt cool down by bedtime. So it interfered with our whole life style.

So I am not ignorant, or rednecked, or stupid. I have experienced the whole shebang and am definitely against having daylight saving in SE Qld.

I also think we have our own style of daylight saving anyway. tradesmen start earlier, Drs open earlier, shops open earlier, people generally get up earlier and go to bed earlier than elsewhere. And that happens all year !

I love Qld, will never live anywhere else and I agree with those who say if you dont like our lifestyle, why did you come here ?

A little information after Helen and Nicko's postings. On the summer solstice, December 22nd., the day the sun is at its southern most traverse and over Rockhampton, the Civil Twilight Rise line runs from Mackay through Charleville and Hungerford on the Qld/NSW border at 4.54 am.EST, sunrise is still 20 odd minutes away. West of this line is in darkness and this covers the great majority of the state. Mount Isa has a Civil Twilight Rise of 6.54 am two hours later.The lifestyles west of this line are I would suggest vastly different to that described by Helen and the area is really in a different time zone, if we use the sun rise as an indicator. A simple solution to the time difference would be to move this region to Central time but this would cause problems in the tropics with its even daylight hours all year round,it's a thought, but an unlikely one.

If Australia had been divided as proposed in 1838 we probably would not have the trouble today with this debate. The proposal restricted all states to about the same size and positioned them accorting to defined longatude and latitude to take time differences into consideration. For those that dislike time zones it would have been a nightmare as there were 9 states suggested.

It makes no sense and is absurd to have extra sunlight hours in the morning when most of us are sleeping.

I think we all need to be honest about that - who is consistently awake when the sun rises within the hour of 4am to 5am - who also has the time to partake in leisure activities?

Not many people, most people these days wake up, get ready to get to work/uni or get kids ready for school or both.

Sure you may partake in exercise before work but I would think this is a short sharp jog, run,swim - it's not lounging around now is it?

Qld needs to move with the times in business, lifestyle, behavioural and policy matters and issues - or it will be left behind in consideration of national and international issues. The trend for interstate or overseas people moving here for a 'better climate' only lasts for so long.

After that noveltly has worn off people want to live in an area that embraces new ideas, multi and different cultures, people and consultative change. With a good balance between work, family and leisure.

For those folk that are not welcoming to new people moving to Qld, you may like to consider whether or not your attitude is one that you would like known as being a Qld'er.Without the support of interstate skills, knowledge, capability and money, Qld will not continue its growth - intellectually and financially.

Qld has many wonderful and positive things that make people continue to live here or to want to move here.

I have to say the resistance to change & lack of embracing new people that I hear from some quarters does reduce the beauty of the sub-tropical environs and climate & friendly people.

You do not need to be a high level business person to be affected by the difference in Summer Time across Australia. Any employee or employer who works in an industry that relates to staff across the nation would have a nightmare managing workload and interpersonal relations. One or two is manageable, 3-4 becomes tiresome - not to mention reduces productivity and can create reverse workflow.

As for the impact summer time would have on the agricultural or similar industries, to be blunt -get over it. Victoria, Tasmania and NSW contain as extensive agricultural etc industries and those folk manage. Why can't Qlder's?

I cannot help but think it is all wrapped up in aresistance to change, negative thinking to working proactively and a ridiculous notion that we will be doing the same as southern states. Who cares?

If its a good idea, embrace it - regardless of where it came from.

I have lived in both no daylight saving and daylight saving. Daylight saving is a godsend for southerners - particularly in Vic and Tas where winter drags on for what seems an eternity.

Sure this does not occur in Qld - but I come back to my opening line - does it make sense to have daylight and high temperatures when most of the state is sleeping.

Daylight saving is about using the most of the day at the right time. There is still time to take a leisurely stroll after dinner to spend time with loved ones or for those younger, to catch up with friends or get outside and play - thats what my parents told me when I was a kid.

Wake up and smell the frangipani Peter Beattie.

To all those who don't want daylight saving reintroduced to Qld, you are a bunch of superstitious, uncultured rednecks. If any of your friends could put up with you unending whinging and nonsense, you'd find that being able to spend time with them after work is a very relaxing activity. Plus I hate waking up with a hangover when the sun rises at 5am. Bring Back Daylight Savings!!! Thank you

I am a born and bred Queenslander and quite frankly I am sick and tired of "Southeners" moving to our part of the world and then whinging about our choice of rejecting daylight savings.Well I would like to have a whinge myself about the negative impact these migrants are having on my quality of life.Massive pressure on infrastructure such as roads ,hospitals,water,electricity.Please do not come to our lovely state and destroy what we enjoy.Thank you.

Daylight saving was introduced in World War 2 as an energy saving measure,but now we would have our children returning from school and going to the pool in the hottest part of the day.
We have a high incidence of sun cancer here in Queensland, consequently we are concearned.
Time zones are a fact of life the world over, would you suggest putting Australia and New Zealand on one time zone?

Yes Bob, I take your point and agree with you about the choice of dates. The point I was making is that despite being so far west, Cairns is still not very different to Brisbane! This is not the impression given by the Mayor, her comment being made out of ignorance of the facts, and which unfairly distort the debate.

In any case, sunset at 7:45 in Cairns WITH daylight saving is not an unreasonable hour for sunset. It is still EARLIER than it would be in western NSW WITHOUT daylight saving where in general they love it, or at worst accept it!

To date i have voted in three referendum on daylite saving, 2 in QLD and one in WA all rejected the idea after a fair trial.
Can any one help me when were the referendums held in the states that have daylite saving?

Oh I can't see the problem if you want daylite saving move to Tweed heads.

Being old and a bushie I know a little about aircraft and the terms "first light" and "last light". These terms equate pretty well with the Term Civil Twilight. Philip is not using all the information available to him to demonstrate his point, so I will add a little.
The Summer Solstice is a bad date to pick as the sun is almost equidistant from both Cairns and Brisbane and so the Civil Twilight Set times will be close. What he did not include for this date was the first light time which is about one hour different between the two centres, the Civil Twilight Rise for Brisbane being 0421 and the Civil Twilight Rise for Cairns being 0517. a better date to pick is November 1st. Where the Civil Twilight Rise for Brisbane is 0432 and Cairns is 0517. Civil Twilight Set for Brisbane on this date is 1831 and Cairns is 1845. The big difference is on the Winter Solstice where the Civil Twilight Rise in Brisbane is 0612 and in Cairns is 0622. The Civil Twilight Set for Brisbane is 1702 and for Cairns is 1816. I would suggest the comment by the acting Mayor of Cairns was ment to perhapse represent the relatively even day light length through out the year.

The information on day length is readily available on the Geoscience Australia web site.

Please!! Give us daylight saving - we want to enjoy those afternoon daylight hours with our kids in the garden - BBQ's - walking at 7pm (How luxurious!!) Get with it Mr. Beatty - it's not 'Joe's country' anymore - I don't believe the cows will suffer - they don't anywhere else in the world do they???

I'm concerned about the amount of disinformation and fiction that people opposed to daylight saving peddle to support their case. If you wish to participate in the debate, get your facts correct first. Lets ask Jamie and Adam to test the MYTHs.

The acting Mayor of Cairns, Ms Margaret Gill said in the Courier Mail on Saturday 29 October "We are so far west that we already have our own inbuilt daylight saving". Is this MYTH true or false?

In fact during summer its fiction. On the longest day of the year, December 22 (the summer solstice) "official last light" occurs at CAIRNS airport at 19:07 and at BRISBANE airport at 19:17! This data comes from the offcial Air Services Australia publications AIP and ERSA.

The MYTH that Cairns has its own built in daylight saving is false.

Hence, MYTH BUSTED!

We are all showing how parochial we are here with our comments on the amount of light in a day.
While Chris misquoted me, I have experienced Daylight Saving in the west of Queensland where it was still dark at 7 am.DST and as I am a primary producer I start at 5 am. and finish at sunset so lifestyle does influence my thinking. While there is useable light at 5.30 am. here and darkness by 6.30 pm. it is hardly the expanse of light available to Southern States.

Chris's comment about Peter Beattie needs to be put in context, he must remember Peter Beattie is a politician. 54 of Queensland's 89 seats are in the extreme South-East Curner of the state, South of Gympie and East of the Great Dividing Range. The alternate representative to Labour in these seats is probably Liberal, as shown by the recent by-election result. Liberals support Daylight Saving and the Nationals don't support Davlight Saving, so he can use it as a wedge to influence the opposition coalition of Liberals and Nationals. The other factor for his lack of support is there is little support outside these 54 seats for Daylight Saving and he needs these other seats to retain power.

Sarah's comment on early morning coolness is relevant and we should remember the drive to air condition school classrooms for the purpose of improving learning conditions. The problem is leisure time is moved to the hotter part of the day. Once again it is a lifestyle change that is required to accommodate Daylight Saving, moving activities from the cool of the morning to the heat of the evening. This will probably not be so obvious in the south-east but it is in the North and West of the state.

Why does not the tweed area change to Qld time or even as far south as Murwillumbah

Who cares what the other states are doing I live in QLD and love it the way it is if you don't like it go back to your miserable state where its cold and dark. It is actually light at 3.30 in summer and still light at 7.30 in QLD that's 3 more Hours than you southerners get any way try walking along the beach at 4.00am in VIC or NSW in board shorts or a bikini what tropical country needs daylight saving or though if we did have daylight saving we could increase the risk of skin cancer and as for business because I actually do something at work so when I get home I just want to relax have dinner and go to bed without the sun in my eyes and get up early in the morning with the sun in my eyes not darkness. Try dealing with the US time zone and should we ever get daylight saving we would have to wind our clocks 10 years back to line up with the rest of Australia They don't call QLD the sunshine state for nothing that's why everybody wants to live and holiday here get use to it if you really want daylight saving get out of bed early in the morning and move to a state that has it

I am a Student in year 11 and I say YES to daylight saving. I thought we were the smart state. Studies show kids learn better in the morning when its not so hot.
Think of the chidern who are the future if you want to get the best out of us turn back the clocks so we can learn.
To all those early morning walker why can't you walk in the evening its a good way to de-stress after a hard days work, you will be fresh for work which makes a happier work enviroment for everyone and your best performance will shine. Lets think also of the olderly who live for their garderns, they could water in the light of the evening to lessin their chances of a fall.
Come on QLD think of our State and how it could better us, don't just your self we need to get in the real world not dream world.

Let's hope that the Federal Government takes over "time zones" and ends this silly argument. Then we may have three areas of time, zoned as East Central and West. With a set start and finish dates.

I was part of the community of Mt. Isa at the time when daylight saving was last imposed on us. We objected strongly to ever having to go through that again. Now that I live in the S.E. corner of the state I still feel that way. If you want to make the most of the best part of the daylight hours get up when the sun rises - take a walk, play a game of tennis, go surfing etc. These are truly the best hours of the day, not in the evening when the heat is still radiating from buildings, streets and even the soil!

Why is Peter Beattie so obstinantly against Daylight Savings? Is it because he hates to be proven wrong? Everyone - and I mean everyone - I talk to wants it. I moved here from down south 3 years ago and quite honestly say that lack od DLS would be a major point to send me back interstate. I used to work in the city, travelling 35kms from my home. But gave that up as I was rarely home in daylight - even in the middle of summer. I get so sick of hearing - and reading (even in some of the above letters, such as David Little) about people having to go to work in the dark, or kids going to school in the dark. Excuse me? - it is light at 5.15 in the morning!! Since when did kids go to school at this time? Yes - if they went to school at this time, then going back an hour would have them in the dark, but as most schools starting time is around 8.00, this would make it 7.00 in non DLS time. And dark? - no way!! I gave up a well paid job for a much lower paid job, to be able to work closer to home, so as to enjoy this great climate. What use is it to live with great wheather if you cannot do things with it? Perhaps it would also be a flow on affect - people would not have to race home after work, to try and get things done in day light, or enjoy their time with their family. How I used to LUV getting home from work (and not racing in haste), time to relax with a drink, watch the news, then go out for an hour or 2 riding my horse, or bike, in daylight. Where I live now, I pay rates 4 times what they were interstate, but do not have the luxury of foot paths, and very minimal lighting. So riding my bike - even walking - in the dark is fraught with danger. Fight on for Daylight Savings!!!

I am very against Daylight Saving and have experienced 5 tries at it in Queensland. It just doesn't work. Why should we get up in the dark all year round to satislfy a few people who want daylight saving. There has to be something terribly wrong with the mental attitude of people who need the illusion of putting the time forward before they can get themselves out of bed an hour earlier every day. Provision has been made in Queensland from the Seventies so people can start work an hour earlier if that is what is required for their interstate businesses. Since very few take advantage of this, then it can't be too much of a disruption. Get rid of Daylight Saving altogether and we'd be a whole lot better off. The sun doesn't set in the south until after 7PM and the light doesn't fade until after 9.30 PM (and that is Standard Time) so what do they want with DST? As the sun rises earlier down there, they could still go to work and hour earlier, so why change the clocks? Some one said we Queenslanders would get used to it, well I say you Southerners would soon get used to leaving the clocks alone but going to work an hour earlier. Why Change the clocks??

Take a step back people, daylight saving isn't just about lifestyle, its actually also about energy saving. Daylight saving aligns working and living hours with the sunlight in the hope of reducing community energy consumption (lighting etc.) eg, how many people in brisbane play a summer sport after hours in a club without lights...... what time do lights come on in your household.
But don't take my word for it, do some research, try googling "daylight saving energy consumption"

Daylight Saving is probably of more use to city based people with fixed working hours than those with a more flexible lifestyle. Many trades start at 7am and finish at 4pm so they have access to the added hour desired by those that start work later in the day. While geography does have a bearing on day length those outside our large Southern Cities have little advantage unless they work regulated hours and are below the Tropic of Capricorn.

Consideration should be given to geography in determining the usefulness of daylight saving. Queensland is a very big place, over twice the area of NSW and over 7.5 times the area of Victoria. Half of the state lies above the Tropic of Capricorn and as such has less variation in the period of daylight length. Cairns is about the same distance from Brisbane as Brisbane is from Launceston and about the same longitude as Bourke in NSW and Melbourne so it can be expected to have a markedly different climate than Brisbane not only in temperature but in daylight length. While Brisbane is the state capital, it is a long way south of most of the rest of the state,Townsville is the halfway point of the East coast of Queensland. Cairns in the north of the state has a variation of about 1 hour of daylight between Summer and Winter while Brisbane and points South the difference is increasingly large the further South you go.
The large southern population centres support the administrative functions of our nation and have a larger difference in daylight length so it is quite reasonable to accept the are better off with dalight saving. However the area of Australia north of the Tropic of Capricorn would hardly be advantaged as there is a smaller variation in day light length and less administrative function. Maybe we should think laterally and change State boundries to accommodate Climate and lifestyle.

DS is not suitable for Qld, Familes in the north have to drag their kids off to school in the dark, Farmers have to work in the dark until the sun rises around 7am DS time. This is not a problem in Nsw as the sun is not rising in the Due East, during summer the rotation of the planet changes and sunrise is more in the South East, http://www.bom.gov.au/gms/IDE00006.latest.shtml for a Visible Satellite Image, have a look around 6.30 am, and you will see 75% of the state is in darkness. Then you will notice also that acording to the Daylight time,(How the sun rises) Cairns and Townsville should be on the same time zone as Adeliade SA. So may be we should have 3 times zones in Queensland! NSWDST for the South east, QLDEST in the middle and then NQDST for townsville and further north? Nup leave it the way it is, we get an extra hour of daylight in the morning, and we still get the longer daylight after 5pm anyway.

Daylight Saving in queensland, no way. It does not work for tropical and sub-tropical climates. We need early mornings to do work before the heat of the day and we want to sit down to dinner once it is cool, not whilst the sun is high in the sky.
Also we trade with Asia and the smaller time difference is advantageous. Think Global not parochial.
And how about Mums and bubs! They don't need to have to adjust there baby feeding schedules. My 3 mth grandson recently visited from overseas and suffered jrtlag wanting to keep to his usual feeding schedule. NO TO DAYLIGHT SAVING

I hate daylight saving - and if that makes me a conservative who likes tea at 6pm well so be it. How dare Phillip Orr decide that people who don't agree with him are wrong - grow up mate and realise that democracy allows everyone to have their own opinion and it doesn't make you right and me wrong. I hope that Queensland never has daylight saving.

I think daylight saving is a rediculous concept that should never been introduced.
Whats the point of extending daylight hours in the warmer months which have naturally longer daylight hours anyway.
I have lived in 4 states and it is definately better in the states without it.
For those who start work early will be starting work in the dark instead of daylight and it takes too long to get dark at night [ specially a problem with children ].
All the states and territories should be either all in or all out [ preferably all out ].
Lets all stay on real time all the time.

...Just start the daylight saving and bring QLD into the 21st centrury for (dare I say) God's sake!...Drop all the stupid banter and semantics! It simply does come down to yes or no!

...Conservative QLD politics (and people) need to come out of the (excuse the pun) dark ages and stop having dinner at 6pm every night! It's pure Communism! The whole state needs to wake up to cosmopolitian culturalally rich living, instead of lights out at 6 for everyone...Wake up Queensland and enjoy the balmy nights and LIFESTYLE! I could get more entertainment in the antartic! Wake up to the tourism potential, the injection of jobs, the creation of business, and the better lifestyle....QLD the DUMB STATE!

It makes no sense to split the state into a SE-corner and the rest. Remember, the whole of the Queensland east coast is primarily devoted to tourism. Indeed, Heron Island operates on daylight saving time all year round. This allows guests to make the best use of their day by letting them get breakfast out of the way early so they can spend more time enjoying the reef!

Having had to work in a situation where we covered all of Australia and New Zealand , I can tell you that the creation of another time zone ( i.e both WA & Qld not on DS), is a real pain. WA then becomes 3 hours behind Tas, Vic & NSW. Qld remains 2 hours in front of WA but goes 1/2 hr behind SA and 3 hours behind NZ. From a business point of view, it becomes a nightmare as shifts must be expanded or altered dramatically to cope with the hodge podge. The enforced staggering of lunch breaks , for example ,becomes a nuisance , the southern states say go at 12-30 , back at 1-15 or 30 just in time for Qld workers to start theirs- loss of 2 hours contact potential.
The zone system would work in Qld, the SE corner really needs to be on DST , to maintain parity with other states during the period. It is understood that Mt Isa , for instance would not like being on DST ( they'd be getting up in the dark,just about as they are already behind anyway).The solution would be to do what Broken Hill does - work on SA time,it makes sense to me. I also agree that DST is not terribly good in the far North , they are already , again , behind due to their western orientation in relation to the sun and the addition of an extra hour of hot , humid conditions at the end of the day , when you're just waiting for the sun to go down , is not a good idea, for mine.
Do the zonal, let the SE corner ( where a large part of the business and tourist activity is centered) do the DST thing , let Mt Isa have SA time and lets get on with a sensible solution.

Those who claim "Offsetting Qld's time by 1 hour actually reduces business contact time with southern states by 4 hours every day." are promulgating a complete nonsense. How is it that South Australia and West Australia operate in a different time zone to the eastern states all year round without too much difficulty? Furthermore, I have worked throughout the SE Asia region across a wide range of time zones alongside associates based in Brisbane, Canberra, Sydney, Adelaide and at times partners in the USA and Saudi Arabia. Different Time Zones? So what? They are a fact of life on a spherical planet. Get hold of a good time difference schedule, grow up and get used to it.

Perhaps the critics of Queensland"s decision to
reject daylight saving were not here when the referendum was held.This was a simple yes/no choice and Queenslanders made their decision.Some people like myself enjoy the extra time before work to spend on the beach when winds are favourable.Why do we always have to put business first?